Interviewee: Bertadean Baker, 74

Interviewer: Earlene Clanton

Place of Interview: Warren Memorial Library, Warrenton, NC

Date and Time: April 7, 2014, 5:00p.m.

Description: Bertadean Baker was born to Haywood Williams and Pearlie Silver Williams. They lived in a small town called Arcola in North Carolina. She had eight brothers and sisters and she was the eighth child. She had a twin sister that passed away some time ago. As time passed on she got married and became the mother of three daughters, eight grandchildren and three great grandchildren.

Growing up in her town where family, friends, and church meant everything was a pretty good life for her. As she stated, “When you are a child your parents protect you from the world and you only know what you see”. In her community she was shown lots of love and kindness. She states, “I never knew until I became much older of all the things I did not have because of the color of my skin”. Living in a community, were neighbors treated you like family, was something that she held dear to her heart. The community was very peaceful and loving. It was considered as one big family and whatever anyone needed someone would try to help them get it. Back in her day, there were “Hoover Days”. “Hoover Days”, was presented by the government during the times of President Hoover. This meant people had “stamps” that were issued out to families that needed them to purchase non-perishables items, such as sugar and flour. Other foods that families ate were either grown or raised. Families had cows, goats, hogs, and chickens. Every family had a garden. They made everything from scratch. I enjoyed the stories of how butter and molasses was made and how sweet potatoes were stored in the ground during the winter to keep fresh. Each family had an ice box and once a week a man would come around and families would purchase a big block of ice to keep their food from spoiling. Living in such a small community had its impacts. Children were taught to obey and respect every adult and treat everyone kind. We all went to the same church, practiced the same beliefs, and was taught the same morals.

Mrs. Baker attended the Odell Missionary Baptist Church. In her community there were three known religions. These religions included: Baptist, Holiness, and Holy and Sanctified. The other existing religions, she learned about as she got older. She was able to adapt to the other religions because she had friends that practiced other religions different from her own. Mrs. Baker’s whole life and knowledge of the world came from her family and her small community. As she became older and wanted to receive an education, leaving her family and community was exciting and scary.

Leaving her family and community brought joy and sorrow. She pictured her first day of school in her community with family and friends. The name of her first school was called Long School (a Rosenwald School) located in Arcola, North Carolina she attended this school from first grade to the sixth grade. There was not a kindergarten class in her day. After sixth grade she attended John R. Hawkins High School located in Warrenton, North Carolina where seventh through twelfth graders were educated. When time came for her to further her education, she had all kinds of feelings. She had an aunt that lived in Raleigh, that made attending St. Augustine College in Raleigh, North Carolina more inviting. She received her BS Degree in Elementary Education K-6. The education she received came with ease. She had plenty of support. Although the civil rights movement was taking place there was not a time she felt she was in any real danger. She never attended college with any whites all blacks through her duration of college.

“The Experience”

While attending St. Augustine’s College, there was one incident that she strongly remember and that was when she was riding the city bus from school to her aunts h certain bus ride. Her aunt told her to make sure she gets off at a certain stop because of the danger of getting off at the wrong Bus Stop. During that time where whites and blacks were separated, you made sure to get off the bus at your designated stop. Mrs. Baker stated, “When the bus driver asked her was this her stop? She said, “I don’t know, I think so”. He stopped the bus and she got off. She was terrified because she did not see familiar surroundings. She had good sense to back track because of her knowledge of the bus route. After an hour, she found her aunt’s house. Her aunt asked her how was school; she stated, “It was fine”. She said; “She was just too embarrassed to tell her what happened”. That night she was grateful to be at home, thinking of what could have happened because she was out of place. Another incident with a bus driver more frightful than the before, was about bus fare. She worked her way through school. The job she had was a babysitting job. She stated that the white family she worked for was very nice, but expected for her to be on time if not earlier to start babysitting. The white bus drivers were mean to blacks and wasted no time listening to what they had to say. At that time, it cost twenty cents to ride the bus. She put her two dimes in the coin catcher. The driver flipped the coin catcher so fast that it only recognized one coin. The driver asked her to put in more money and she refused. The other passengers were getting tired of waiting and so was she. One black woman said, “Can you please just pay the man, I need to get home”. She looked at her and said. “I paid her him”. Afraid of losing her job and knowing she needed it to continue school was not going to keep her from standing her ground, because she knew she put both dimes in. The driver finally let her on the bus. When she took her seat, he stated; “One of these days someone will slap you right off that seat”. She thought to herself, it will not be you. While attending college, although she never participated in a march, she would help set up places to give out information about the marches that informed people how important it is to vote, how voting will help change our situations, and give blacks and others the rights that are entitled to them. During one of the session, she witnessed a white man light a cigarette and burned a black female just because he was furious about blacks wanting the rights to vote. She witnessed so many changes, but stayed out of the way of danger. Never missing a beat she continued her education. She graduated from North Carolina Central University, Durham North Carolina with a Pre-K add on, Principal (K-12), Middle Grade Language Arts (6-8), and from East Carolina University, Greenville North Carolina: Curriculum and Instruction, Med, Certified Mentor. Becoming an educated black female was very important to her. She wanted to be able to give knowledge to her people and others. She stated that no one should be deprived of whatever it takes to make a better life. In order to help someone you need to know how to help them. Having an education will help spread knowledge that is needed to gain a better and a more productive society. The reason for the struggle that Dr. King and many others fought for, suffered through, and died for should still have great meaning today as it did then.

When talking about Dr. King, I asked Mrs. Baker to share her feelings towards Dr. King. She thought a lot of him and thought made a big difference in the black communities. Teaching non-violence took courage and strength. Dr. King earned the love and respect of blacks. When he died it seemed as the whole world shut-down and the all hope was lost. It was a sadness that could not be explained and the same atmosphere occurred when President Kennedy died.

The life that Mrs. Baker lived, have allowed her to witness a lot of good changes and be witness to some terrible abuses, but it made her who she is today. Mrs. Baker enjoys being County Commissioner in Warren County, North Carolina. She loves helping people and letting them know what she stands for and what she is willing and able to do for them. Being able to obtain an education degree has led her into politics. Being able to work with students and their parents and see and hear so many concerns about education, she just wanted to do more in the terms of building a good, safe, and strong community for all children.

“Sometimes when I think back to how much things have changed from my childhood to this present day brings joy and sorrow. I am very thankful for being able to have the right to vote and the privilege of earning a good education, but it saddens me when I think about the lives lost all because they wanted to enjoy a descent life”.

Interviewing Bertadean Baker was an honor. She was very knowledgeable of her surroundings and atmosphere during the time of “The Civil Rights Movement”. Mrs. Baker was able to share with me her experiences of being a teenager and her college years living through the civil rights movement.

Transcript

Clanton: Ok the first thing I need you to do is state your full name, give your place of birth,parent names, and tell me how many siblings you had.

Baker: My name is Bertadean Baker I was born to Haywood Williams and Pearlie Silver Williams. I lived in a small town called Arcola in North Carolina where I was born. I have eight brothers and sisters and I am the eighth child. I had a twin sister that passed away some time ago.

Clanton: Wow I lived in Littleton not far from Arcola. Now I need a little background information. How many children did you have?

Baker: As time passed I got married and became the mother of three daughters, eight grandchildren and three great grandchildren.

Clanton: I have two children of my own. Tell me about your religion and community.

Baker: Growing up in Arcola family, friends, and church meant everything. When you are a child your parents protect you from the world and you only know what you see which was lots of peace, love and kindness. I never knew until I became much older of all the things I did not have because of the color of my skin. All the neighbors treated you like family and that is something that I hold dear to my heart. It was considered as one big family and whatever anyone needed someone would try to help them get it. Back in the day, there were “Hoover Days”. “Hoover Days”, was presented by the government during the times of President Hoover. This meant people had “stamps” that were issued out to families that needed them to purchase non-perishables items, such as sugar and flour. Other foods that families ate were either grown or raised like cows, goats, hogs, and chickens. Every family had a garden. They made everything from scratch like how butter and molasses. We stored sweet potatoes in the ground during the winter to keep them fresh. Each family had an ice box and once a week a man would come around and families would purchase a big block of ice to keep their food from spoiling. Living in such a small community had its impacts. Children were taught to obey and respect every adult and treat everyone kind. We all went to the same church, practiced the same beliefs, and was taught the same morals.

I attended the Odell Missionary Baptist Church. In my community there were three known religions. They included: Baptist, Holiness, and Holy and Sanctified. I learned of other that practiced other religions different from me. As she became older and wanted to receive an education, leaving her family and community was exciting and scary.

Clanton: Now that you have told me about your community and religion. Tell me about your education.

Baker: I wanted an education but leaving my family and community was exciting and scary.   So I pictured my first day of school in Arcola with my family and friends. The name of the first school was called Long School (a Rosenwald School). I attended this school from first grade to the sixth grade. There was not a kindergarten class in my day. After sixth grade I attended John R. Hawkins High School located in Warrenton, North Carolina where seventh through twelfth graders were educated. When time came for me to further my education I had all kinds of feelings. Leaving my family and community brought joy and sorrow. My aunt living in Raleigh made attending St. Augustine College in Raleigh, North Carolina more inviting. I received my BS Degree in Elementary Education K-6. The education I received came with ease because I had plenty of support. I also graduated from North Carolina Central University, Durham North Carolina with a Pre-K add on, Principal (K-12), Middle Grade Language Arts (6-8), and from East Carolina University, Greenville North Carolina in Curriculum and Instruction, Med, Certified Mentor. Becoming an educated black female was very important to me. I wanted to be able to give knowledge to my people and others. No one should be deprived of whatever it takes to make a better life. In order to help someone you need to know how to help them. Having an education will help spread knowledge that is needed to gain a better and a more productive society. The reason for the struggle that Dr. King and many others fought for, suffered through, and died for should still have great meaning today as it did then.

Clanton: What were some of your experiences during The Civil Rights Movement?

Baker: Although the civil rights movement was taking place there was not a time I felt I was in any real danger. I never attended college with any whites all blacks through her duration of college. While attending St. Augustine’s College, there was one incident that I strongly remember and that was when I was riding the city bus from school to my aunt’s house. My aunt had told me to make sure I got off at a certain stop because of the danger of getting off at the wrong Bus Stop. During that time whites and blacks were separated, you had to make sure to get off the bus at your designated stop. When the bus driver asked me was this my stop? I said, “I don’t know, I think so”. He stopped the bus and so I got off. I was terrified because I did not see familiar surroundings. I had good sense to back track because of my knowledge of the bus route. After an hour, I found my aunt’s house. My aunt asked me how was school; I simply stated, “It was fine”. I was just too embarrassed to tell her what happened. That night I was grateful to be at home, thinking of what could have happened because I was out of place. I had another incident with a bus driver more frightful than the before, it was about bus fare. I worked my way through school. I had a job babysitting for a white family who were very nice, but expected me to be on time if not earlier to start babysitting. The white bus drivers were mean to blacks and wasted no time listening to what they had to say. At that time, it cost twenty cents to ride the bus. I put two dimes in the coin catcher. The driver flipped the coin catcher so fast that it only recognized one coin. The driver asked me to put in more money and I refused. The other passengers were getting tired of waiting and so was I. One black woman said, “Can you please just pay the man, I need to get home”. I looked at her and said. “I paid him”. Afraid of losing my job and knowing I needed it to continue school was not going to keep me from standing my ground, because I knew that I put both dimes in. The driver finally let me on the bus. When I took my seat, he stated; “One of these days someone will slap you right off that seat”. I thought to myself, it will not be you.

Clanton: Wow I probably would have handled those incidences differently. Did you take part in the Freedom Marches? Were you involved in any civil rights organizations?

Baker: While attending college, although I never participated in a march, I would help set up places to give out information about the marches that informed people how important it is to vote, how voting will help change our situations, and give blacks and others the rights that are entitled to them. During one of the sessions, I witnessed a white man light a cigarette and burned a black female just because he was furious about blacks wanting the rights to vote. I witnessed so many changes, but stayed out of the way of danger. I never missed a beat to continue my education.

Clanton: You mentioned Dr. King earlier. How did you feel when Martin Luther King Jr. and John F. Kennedy were assassinated?

Baker: As I said Dr. King and others fought for, suffered through many things and died for our civil rights. I thought a lot of him and thought he made a big difference in the black communities. Teaching non-violence took courage and strength. Dr. King earned the love and respect of blacks. When he died it seemed as the whole world shut-down and the all hope was lost. It was a sadness that could not be explained and the same atmosphere occurred when President Kennedy died.

Clanton: When growing up during the time of segregation, can you recall any incident when you recognized different treatment because of color? If so, was it violent?

Baker: Yes, when my family went to town at the Warrenton court house there were two water fountains one for whites and one for blacks. When we went out to eat there was a window that we had to order our food from. We could not go inside to eat. When we went to the library we could not go in but go to a mobile library to get books, but did not witness any violence.

Clanton: Did you attend segregated schools? If so where are they located?

Baker: I have always attended school with blacks until I graduated from St. Augustine’s College and later returned to further my education at North Carolina Central University and East Carolina University they were segregated.

Clanton: What things do you do now that impact society?

Baker: I have witnessed a lot of good changes and been a witness to some terrible abuses, but it helped make me become who I am today. I enjoy being County Commissioner in Warren County, North Carolina. I love helping people and letting them know what I stand for and what I am willing and able to do for them. Being able to obtain an education degree has led me into politics. Being able to work with students and their parents and see and hear their concerns I wanted to do more in the terms of building a good, safe, and strong community for all children. Sometimes when I think back to how much things have changed from my childhood to this present day brings joy and sorrow. I am very thankful for being able to have the right to vote and the privilege of earning a good education.

Clanton: Thank you so much for letting me interview you and taking up your time.

Baker: You’re welcome!